Quick find:


You say, "Is chess chaotic?"
Cinait says, "It is strategically spontaneous?"
You say, "I make a move. You make a move. I make a move. You make a move.
     Always according to very strict rules, but we cannot know what the
     other will do."
Cinait nods
You say, "I can try to predict what you will do, and model my action on
     it."
Cinait says, "You can try to account for all my possible moves."
You nod
You say, "But let's suppose I have two options"
You say, "And that, whichever one I do, you have two options."
Cinait nods
You say, "I don't know which option you will choose. But I can choose my
     own option."
You say, "Now, if one of your options is inherently better, then I would
     expect that you will do that."
You say, "And so I could choose, from my options, the one that will serve
     me better if you do that option of yours."
You say, "But you know that I am thinking this. So you might deliberately
     choose the inferior option, specifically because I will be expecting
     you to take the superior option."
You say, "And so in that sense, the inferior option is superior to the
     superior, which is inferior to the inferior, precisely because the
     superior is superior and the inferior is inferior."
You say, "And... this is why I love talking to psions."
Cinait grins
Cinait says, "That's a paradox too!"
You say, "Right!"
Cinait says, "The less advantageous of two decisions is more advantageous.
     So you must go for the more advantageous, which is really not as
     advantageous!"
You say, "Now, only a great fool would take the option given to him. You
     are not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the option in front
     of me."
You say, "Let's simplify this game enormously and actually play it."
Cinait says, "Oh, alright"
Cinait grins
You grin
Rosuav looks at simple silver ring.
You say, "This ring is the prize."
-> Rosuav turns his back so you cannot see.
-> Rosuav turns around again, with both his hands holding a leather pouch
You drop leather food pouch.
You drop large pillow.
-> Rosuav places the pillow near you, and the pouch near himself
You say, "Where is the ring? The game begins now, and ends when you choose,
     and we both reveal."
You say, "Your challenge is to divine from what you know of me whether I am
     the sort of person who would place the ring under his own point of
     concealment or yours."
Cinait says, "I have to out think you?"
Cinait blinks
You say, "Yep."
Cinait says, "Well, I would say that even the gorians would agree, that
     this is the perfect example of 'challenging oneself'."
You nod
You grin
-> Cinait focuses intensley on the pillow and the pouch
You say, "No cheating with psionics, here"
You grin
Cinait grins
Cinait says, "So, would Rosuav put the ring towards me or towards
     himself.."
Cinait hmms
Cinait says, "And the rules specifically state that it is one of these
     items that you have placed before us?"
You say, "It's between these two, yes."
Cinait says, "Then the ring is in the pouch."
Cinait says, "But I'm not sure that this is a good example."
You say, "Why do you say that?"
You say, "A clever man would put the ring under his own concealer, because
     he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he is given.
     You are not a great fool, so therefore you clearly cannot choose the
     location in front of me."
You say, "But I must have known that you are not a great fool, and would
     have counted on it, so you can clearly not choose the location in
     front of you."
Cinait hmms
You say, "This ring came from the Wheel of Plenty, as everyone knows, and
     the Wheel is entirely populated with free gifts, and free gifts are
     used to being taken for granted, so you can clearly not choose the
     location in front of me."
Cinait says, "So then, I have to account for your desire to keep the ring
     and also you opinion that I am or am not a fool, while also consider
     whether or not you are or are not a fool."
You say, "Indeed!"
Cinait says, "I would stick with the pillow I believe."
You say, "But earlier you said that the ring was in the pouch."
You say, "You're trying to trick me into giving away information. It won't
     work."
Cinait says, "No, I think I have, in the very least, a better understanding
     of the process on how to make the decision. If you want to stick with
     the first answer I gave then that is fine. It is after all a ring for
     free."
You grin
You say, "You've made your decision then?"
Cinait says, "If I win the ring, it holds no more value to me than it does
     to you because you won it just the same."
Cinait nods
-> Rosuav hands you the pouch, and inside is: the ring.
You get leather food pouch.
You give Cinait leather food pouch.
You give Cinait simple silver ring.
Cinait hmms
Cinait looks at simple silver ring
You say, "What I would have liked to have done would be to put a ring under
     both."
Cinait smirks in amusement
You say, "Then we could have had the humour of seeing you win the ring
     regardless of your choice."
You get large pillow.
You say, "But the point still stands: Was that game chaotic, or orderly?"
You say, "I had a choice. You had a choice."
You say, "My choice controlled which of your choices would win."
Cinait says, "The game was orderly beyond comprehension."
You say, "It was indeed, and yet you had no true way to work out where the
     ring was."
Cinait says, "All I could do was try to understand as much as I could, to
     eliminate variables."
You nod
You say, "And ultimately, you could not have truly known, could you?"
Cinait shakes his head no
Cinait says, "I can not eliminate all the variables."
Cinait hmms
Cinait says, "Wait.."
You say, "If there was a way for you to know where the ring was, I could
     have followed the exact same thought pattern, worked out where you
     would choose, and then put the ring in the other place."
Cinait says, "Ah, so even If I could have read your mind, you could have
     given me a false image to read."
You say, "Well, now we get into the realm of cheating and psionics, which
     are outside of the game."
You grin
Cinait says, "How are they outside?"
You say, "You just create a second game."
You say, "I could create you a false image, but you know that I could
     create a false image."
You say, "So if you expect me to make a fake image, you would choose the
     opposite of what the image says."
You say, "But I know that you know that I could make a false image, so I
     could just give you the true image, knowing that you will do the
     opposite."
You say, "But you know that I know that.... you see where we are going. The
     game is exactly the same."
Cinait says, "And that's only two choices!"
You say, "Aye!"
Cinait says, "Oh my, I am certainly happy to be a psion. My head is in such
     rapture right now that I fear any other type of mortal might have
     turned to liquid by now."
You grin