Rosuav's 1

20090417:
(The initial comment is in reference to http://xkcd.com/570/ )
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: I like the mouseover on todays xkcd
-{Citizen}- Rosuav grins at Abdalan
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: Abs, 20060324 you discussed the possibility of your
character receivin email spam
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: dude
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: that's fucking creepy
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: Yeah, elves getting email spam and spending their
valuable Orb on it
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: I have a memory like a sieve Ros, what'd I say?
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: Abdalan [trivia] I wish I could e-mail text to Abdalan
:-) But then he'd end up with offers for penis enhancement, and
he's an elf so he'd probably spend valuable Orb on it
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: Seriously
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: That's creepy
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: I wasn't joking
-{Citizen}- Rosuav nods at Leshrak
-{Citizen}- Saorise: He missed your meaning Leshrak.
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: So you acknowledge that you're being creepy and
willfully continuing to be creepy?
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: Yeah, the notion of elves getting email mail-order
drugs...
-{Citizen}- Maqtet laughs
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: No, I think what Abs said was creepy.
-{Citizen}- Saorise: He is not talking about that Rosuav. It is that you
log everything.
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: No. I mean you saving everything everyone says ever,
archiving it and bringing it up 3 years later
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: I know Sao
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: And Leshrak, I don't save _everything_
-{Citizen}- Saorise: It is a bit big-brother.
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: Only the things that are worth saving.
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: Somewhere Ari has my notes on childrearing from back
around '01 or '02
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: See? Ari's just the same. If it's worth saving, he
saves.
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: He generally saves funny stuff
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: Me too
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: He's also the administrator of the game, so saving
things is necessary to cover future problems.
-{Citizen}- Tyisrisum: You save everything Rosuav. Not just the funny
stuff.
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: Like warning people that future pool will not be
childproofed
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: Uhh, I don't know that 'help tharun' is necessary to
cover future problems, is it?
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: No, that's pretty hilarious though
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: Yes, yes it is
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: And Tyis, no. Not everything. Just the stuff worth
keeping.
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: A lott've folks do, frequently in their OOC comments
-{Citizen}- Saorise: debatable
-{Citizen}- Tyisrisum: Yes, that's why you continually whip out random
quotes from people. That generally aren't funny.
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: Abs, was what I just quoted funny?
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: Well shit, I guess I'll have to try harder
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: I thought so but apparently everyone is a critic
-{Citizen}- Rosuav nods at Abdalan
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: Let's go be funny on trivia in future, Citizen's a
tough audience
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: Apparently it's reserved for only posting other people
being funny online
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: Riight. Creep factor of 10. Rosuav logs what seems
like -everything- obscure and random, and talks about it years
and years after the fact. This happens frequently. Creepy.
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: I've said my piece, and am letting it go.
-{Citizen}- Rosuav watches Leshrak's piece, having been let go, fall to the
ground and shatter into a million pieces... err, no xkcd
intended
-{Citizen}- Levastire: Rosuav, the thing is that people feel like their
privacy is being violated by having you log every utterance in
every medium and then cross-reference it years later. Do or
don't do what you want with that, but it's a feeling shared by
several. People don't like having irrelevant chatter logged.
-{Citizen}- Lucinda: awwww
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: Chatter in a public place has no expectation of
privacy
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: Levastire, it's not a privacy consideration. This is a
public channel.
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: Especially not electronic chatter
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: And, no matter how many times I explain it, people
don't seem to realise that I do not log everything.
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: Broadcast in the clear, on lines from the NE to
Australia
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: NE?
-{Citizen}- Levastire: There absolutely is a privacy consideration. Speech
is not just about location, it's across time. People expect
their statements will be used for the purpose intended, not
flung into the arbitrary future at your personal whimsy.
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: Northeast
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: Sorry, no. You can retrieve "recent" statements from
'last', where "recent" is defined not by time but by quantity.
And I'd say Ari has full logs going all the way back. Speech
here is NOT time-based.
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: If its said on the net it might as well be said
permanently
-{Citizen}- Levastire: Listen, you clearly are deliberately tone-deaf to
the norms that most people instinctively grasp on this logging
matter. You've logged for years over the protests of more than
a few. Nobody pretends this will make you stop. I'm trying to
briefly articulate why solidly 4 out of 5 people that learn
you're logging everything you see react negatively.
-{Citizen}- Rosuav nods at Abdalan
-{Citizen}- Levastire: Privacy norms are time-based, Rosuav. Speech is not
just about where it is said, it is about when and in what
context or medium. That is why privacy concerns are
implicated, despite this being a public channel.
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: Who is the aggrieved party here? I'm the one he
quoted, why do you insist on making a personal attack here?
-{Citizen}- Levastire: This isn't a personal attack.
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: Lev, have you ever said anything verbally and then had
people quote it behind your back? As soon as you've said
something, it ceases to be in your control.
-{Citizen}- Saorise: People do not like every bit of their speech be it on
a public channel or not being logged.
-{Citizen}- Levastire: If you're construing this as a personal attack
rather than a polite attempt to explain why some people do not
like what Rosuav did, you've seriously forgotten what a
personal attack looks like.
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: No, it really is. You're trying to make someone feel
guilty for something they've done that hasn't harmed anyone.
-{Citizen}- Levastire: I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty about
anything. I am articulating the concerns about a practice. I
have flatly stated that I have no expectation he will desist.
Rosuav appeared to not understand the objections. I have now
explained them, and that explanation is done.
-{Citizen}- Levastire: That having been said, what Rosuav does vis-a-vis
logging is not against any rule, despite however uncomfortable
it makes some individuals feel, so if he elects to do so, he is
under the general aegis of legal conduct, and so be it.
-{Citizen}- Rosuav: Thank you Levastire. I do appreciate your polite,
gentle, and kind way of making me feel that what I've done
doesn't match up with your standards, which may well be shared
by many other people. I do completely understand (and did
completely understand) what you were saying; but I disagreed.
And still disagree.
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: However your objection has been logged for future
reference.
-{Citizen}- Rosuav nods at Abdalan
-{Citizen}- Levastire: And, in this case, it's been contemplated
aforethought
-{Citizen}- Levastire: So I'm sure we'll hear it repeated sometime without
prompting or desire in the middle of 2011.
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: 20090417 1:31:57 EST
-{Citizen}- Saorise: Leshrak, 2 second ago.
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: We wouldn't need to, you'll bring it up again before
then
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: The next 26 times an obscure, irrelevant, timestamped
quote is copied here..
-{Citizen}- Rosuav begs to differ - he usually only datestamps, not fully
timestamps
-{Citizen}- Leshrak: Semantics
-{Citizen}- Abdalan: Like the scent of babystuff
-{Citizen}- Leshrak nods at Abdalan